CVL-Caledon Literary Group Transcript for 2019-06-13
Suzanne Palmer — The Secret Life of Bots
| 16:56 | Valibrarian Gregg | I am afraid there has bit little promotion this month! My dad was in the hospital and I have had no time - so I hope we get some attendance. |
| 16:58 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | I did put out a notice to ISC and the Oxbridge scholars group earlier today. |
| 16:58 | Ololo Petya (olopierpa) | hallo hallo |
| 16:58 | Valibrarian Gregg | Hello Ololo |
| 16:58 | Vocalist (deeprider) | hi everyone |
| 16:58 | Valibrarian Gregg | hi deeprider |
| 16:58 | KayCooper | Hello, hello :) |
| 16:58 | Valibrarian Gregg | hello KayCooper- good to see you again |
| 16:59 | Vocalist (deeprider) | hi Valibrarian |
| 16:59 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Hi Val, Kay, Vocalist, and Petya |
| 17:00 | Vocalist (deeprider) | haha |
| 17:01 | Valibrarian Gregg | I see there is a discussion notecard in the gold vase. TY Wordsmith |
| 17:01 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | And the story itself is at http://clarkesworldmagazine.com/palmer_09_17/ |
| 17:01 | KayCooper | Hi Andrea :) |
| 17:02 | Valibrarian Gregg | welcome Andrea |
| 17:02 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Val, any prelude you want to give? |
| 17:02 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Hi Andrea. Welcome |
| 17:02 | Ololo Petya (olopierpa) | Hallo Andrea |
| 17:02 | KayCooper | Hi Patty :) |
| 17:02 | Andrea Jones (andreajonesms) | hi |
| 17:02 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | Hi Kay :) |
| 17:02 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | Hi everyone |
| 17:03 | Valibrarian Gregg | Just a reminder that we collaborate with two groups: Oxbridge Caledon and Community Virtual Library- 2nd THURS of month at 5 |
| 17:03 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Hi Patty. Welcome |
| 17:03 | Valibrarian Gregg | Next month we will again be over at the CVL campfire :) |
| 17:03 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | thanks, Word. |
| 17:03 | Valibrarian Gregg | And our story this month is a wonderful sci-fi one! |
| 17:04 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Short notecard in the figurine in front of me on the table. |
| 17:04 | Valibrarian Gregg | Also- last month, Wordsmith and I were able to share a science fiction reading- for "May the 4th be with you!" on May 4 |
| 17:04 | Valibrarian Gregg | It was fun :) |
| 17:05 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | It was. And I have another Bradbury short story for doing it again. :) |
| 17:06 | Valibrarian Gregg | ooh that sounds great! |
| 17:06 | Valibrarian Gregg | Do you have an event planned? |
| 17:06 | Vocalist (deeprider) | how are these discussions going usually? |
| 17:06 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | No, just remembered a good story from the Martian Chronicles and found it online. |
| 17:07 | KayCooper | Ah, love the Martian Chronicles |
| 17:07 | Valibrarian Gregg | These discussion are just wonderful- so many cool sci-fi topics come up |
| 17:07 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | One called: Night Meeting. |
| 17:07 | Valibrarian Gregg | Perhaps one of our meetings could be a read-aloud? might be fun |
| 17:07 | KayCooper | ...been ages since I read them though |
| 17:08 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | We could do that -- anything fun and community building. |
| 17:08 | Valibrarian Gregg | yes! and volunteers could read sections? |
| 17:08 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | So, tonight, The Secret Life of Bots |
| 17:08 | Valibrarian Gregg | The starting sentence and paragraph: "I have been activated, therefore I have a purpose, the bot thought. I have a purpose, therefore I serve." |
| 17:09 | Valibrarian Gregg | I LOVE the opening! |
| 17:09 | Valibrarian Gregg | but it reminded me of the Twilight Zone episode "To Serve Man"--- anyone familiar? |
| 17:10 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | I've been reading a book on (OMG) writing by Sol Stein. He makes the point that an author has a very small window to catch a potential reader's interest. |
| 17:10 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | It's a cookbook, Val. |
| 17:10 | Valibrarian Gregg | yes! cooked up to serve! |
| 17:10 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | To serve man cookbook? |
| 17:10 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | /me looks around. Am I in the right place? |
| 17:11 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | lol |
| 17:11 | KayCooper | That first sentence worked well to draw you in, I think |
| 17:11 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | The Twilight Zone episode that Val just mentioned, Patty. |
| 17:11 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | yes.. |
| 17:11 | Valibrarian Gregg | and the bot's idea of serving with purpose reminded me of that cookbook! |
| 17:11 | Valibrarian Gregg | It was a good opening for sure. |
| 17:11 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | yes I understand. I was being ... funny? |
| 17:11 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | I'll be quiet now :) |
| 17:12 | KayCooper | ...when text doesn't properly convey tone... |
| 17:12 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | I have a purpose, but down in the 900's on the list of things. |
| 17:12 | Valibrarian Gregg | Patty Poppy- please keep at it! confuse us if you can lol |
| 17:12 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | I'll try! ha |
| 17:13 | Valibrarian Gregg | I love to have a purpose and also to serve....but I am not a bot (I hope) |
| 17:13 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | This isn't formal; and I'm just nudging the discussion a bit.. Speak up. |
| 17:13 | KayCooper | Little did the little bot know, what its true purpose would ultimately be |
| 17:13 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | I thought of the Thomas the Tank Engine idea of being "a really useful engine". |
| 17:14 | Valibrarian Gregg | Did you feel the bots described were believable? |
| 17:14 | Valibrarian Gregg | oh yes! hehe Thomas line fits! |
| 17:14 | KayCooper | For some reason, I find all these creatures in these stories, robot or otherwise, to be adorable |
| 17:15 | Valibrarian Gregg | Social robots are actually used in Japan and some other countries- as caregivers. |
| 17:15 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | I was surprised at the small size described, and felt the bot conversations were well done. |
| 17:15 | KayCooper | Yes, their conversations were great |
| 17:16 | Valibrarian Gregg | I read some recent research that children in a study preferred the social robots to pets because: 1. less messy 2. no smell 3. always available and 4. do not argue (very cooperative) |
| 17:16 | KayCooper | The different perspective of the old "problematic" bot vs the newer models |
| 17:16 | KayCooper | The moment we manufacture believable robot pets, I will have one |
| 17:17 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Although the humans seemed to regard innovation as a negative, even after the bot saved their wagon. |
| 17:18 | KayCooper | I think this shows that you always need to be able to think outside the box |
| 17:18 | Valibrarian Gregg | Why do you think they regard them as negative? jealousy/ fear? |
| 17:18 | Valibrarian Gregg | distrust? |
| 17:18 | KayCooper | Maybe because they couldn't control it |
| 17:18 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | More, we didn't order it and it was unexpected, so destroy the bot. |
| 17:19 | KayCooper | I suppose robots having their own ideas could be dangerous in certain circumstances |
| 17:19 | Valibrarian Gregg | ok- yes- lack of control |
| 17:19 | Valibrarian Gregg | Leads to the common theme of robot overlords! Which scientists argue about |
| 17:20 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | The physics setting: you have to get up a lot of speed, reach a special point in space, and you jump to somewhere else in space. |
| 17:20 | Valibrarian Gregg | Some futurists think a "super AI sentient consciousness" could develop at some point and others say impossible. |
| 17:21 | Valibrarian Gregg | Wordsmith- do you think that hyperjump in space is possible (reminds me of time travel) |
| 17:22 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | In some ways, it was equivalent to a wormhole, just with the added requirement of building speed, as if there's a barrier you need the energy to get through. |
| 17:23 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | It's a bit less grandiose in concept that having a "warp drive". |
| 17:24 | KayCooper | That grounds things a bit and adds some extra things to deal with |
| 17:24 | KayCooper | So it's not too easy |
| 17:25 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | And it works for the story to create a single interception point. |
| 17:25 | KayCooper | nods |
| 17:25 | Valibrarian Gregg | This sentence" “I serve,” the Ship said, and pinged down to the kitchen." Would you say the ship itself is a bot? |
| 17:26 | KayCooper | Similar |
| 17:26 | KayCooper | It serves the people |
| 17:26 | Andrea Jones (andreajonesms) | excuse me |
| 17:26 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Yes, the commander bot that communicates with the people and the underbots |
| 17:27 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | The ship, as Kay said, severs the people (and not as in a cookbook) |
| 17:27 | KayCooper | hehe |
| 17:28 | Ololo Petya (olopierpa) | here it is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man_(The_Twilight_Zone) |
| 17:28 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | I thought it an interesting writing nuance that the bot had mantras, almost Dune-like |
| 17:29 | Valibrarian Gregg | yes! |
| 17:29 | Valibrarian Gregg | “Please recite the Mantra of Obedience.” Bot 9 did, and the moment it finished, Ship disconnected. |
| 17:29 | KayCooper | Those mantras seem to be there to keep the bot under control, almost a kind of brainwashing |
| 17:30 | Valibrarian Gregg | So- seems like the mantras were "programmed" indeed |
| 17:30 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Partly that and partly almost a ritual of preparation. |
| 17:31 | Valibrarian Gregg | oh true! |
| 17:31 | Valibrarian Gregg | I like this threat! "Stay away from anyone and anything and everything else, or I will have you melted down and turned into paper clips." |
| 17:31 | KayCooper | Do they use paper clips in the future? |
| 17:31 | Ololo Petya (olopierpa) | or paper |
| 17:31 | KayCooper | exactly |
| 17:32 | Valibrarian Gregg | right! a mix of antiquity and the future hehe |
| 17:32 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | free dj software |
| 17:32 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Likely, so other threat would emerge. |
| 17:32 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | oops sorry. |
| 17:32 | Phrynne | sorry for the lateness |
| 17:32 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Hi, Phrynne |
| 17:32 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | Hi Phrynne |
| 17:33 | Phrynne | /me waves at everyone |
| 17:33 | Ololo Petya (olopierpa) | hi Phrynne |
| 17:33 | KayCooper | Hi Phrynne |
| 17:33 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | And do feel free to speak up and have some fun, Patty. |
| 17:33 | Valibrarian Gregg | Interesting here " I do not expect they can tell a silkbot from a multibot"--- did anyone get a mental picture? |
| 17:34 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | thanks. I will. just getting a feel for what this is all about. |
| 17:34 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | So, the #9 chases the rat-bug (rat-spider) who has spun a trap of filaments. |
| 17:35 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | That's the learning situation that gets generalized. |
| 17:35 | Valibrarian Gregg | Which means a "living being" chased by a programmed machine- right? |
| 17:35 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Seems right. |
| 17:35 | Valibrarian Gregg | Not to imply that all living beings should never be chased! |
| 17:36 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | There are many uses to chasing. |
| 17:36 | Valibrarian Gregg | Just interesting as it messes with Asimov's rules of robots |
| 17:36 | Valibrarian Gregg | a bit |
| 17:37 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Would Asimov's robots be able to take out the aliens? |
| 17:37 | Phrynne | That might depend on whether they recognized them *as* aliens. |
| 17:37 | Valibrarian Gregg | hhmmm good question |
| 17:38 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Non-human aliens at that. |
| 17:38 | Valibrarian Gregg | The 3 Laws: |
| 17:38 | Valibrarian Gregg | First Law A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. Second Law A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law. Third Law A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Laws |
| 17:38 | Valibrarian Gregg | so only deals with humans actually |
| 17:38 | Valibrarian Gregg | not all life forms |
| 17:38 | Phrynne | so it depends on whether the aliens look enough like humans to confuse the bots |
| 17:38 | Phrynne | in that situation |
| 17:39 | Valibrarian Gregg | Those self-centered humans! No wonder the robots hate us hehe |
| 17:40 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Some nice description of the robots weaving their web; hull bots for transportation, silk bots for laying fibers |
| 17:40 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | And a fortunate human decision to shut off power and lay low |
| 17:40 | Valibrarian Gregg | Self-driving cars will be programmed (I read) to make quick judgment calls about which probability protects the most life. Ex: whether to swerve to miss the cat in the road or crash into a tree at a certain speed |
| 17:41 | Valibrarian Gregg | yes- specific robot "purposes" in their service |
| 17:42 | Valibrarian Gregg | Some people say that self driving cars will be much better drivers than we are! |
| 17:42 | KayCooper | I love how he saved that one bot by attaching it to his back |
| 17:42 | Valibrarian Gregg | Because they will have SO much more data available |
| 17:42 | Phrynne | I'm not sure they'd be good for us, though. |
| 17:42 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | The interesting aspect with those is likely eliminating traffic lights. |
| 17:43 | Valibrarian Gregg | true Phrynne- seems every tech advancement is at a cost- a sacrifice of a freedom, privacy or something |
| 17:43 | Phrynne | that's an awful lot of trust to place in cyberelectronics. |
| 17:43 | KayCooper | A lot of people are bad drivers though, not great either way really |
| 17:43 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | I agree, PHrynne. They will make us even less responsible, I think. This next decade is going to be interesting. |
| 17:43 | Phrynne | How about a sacrifice of mental ability? It takes experience and knowledge to drive. |
| 17:43 | Valibrarian Gregg | yes Wordsmith- and we will be free to do other things during travel time |
| 17:43 | Valibrarian Gregg | not just watching the road |
| 17:44 | Phrynne | There's already a study about how relying on automated navigation is keeping people from using their minds for connecting patterns |
| 17:44 | Valibrarian Gregg | True Phrynne! but technology is already robbing us of so much thinking- young people sometimes would rather just google it than try to remember or think for themselves |
| 17:44 | Ololo Petya (olopierpa) | and calculators have taken away the ability of doing arithmetic by hand... |
| 17:44 | Valibrarian Gregg | GPS makes learning map skills almost irrelevant |
| 17:45 | Phrynne | Ololo, I'm from the slide-rule era; I don't regret calculators |
| 17:45 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | yes. I know of a few who rely way to much on their GPS for navigation. They are always getting lost even when they know their region.. |
| 17:45 | Ololo Petya (olopierpa) | :) |
| 17:45 | Valibrarian Gregg | Cardinal directions? unnecessary- just follow the dot |
| 17:45 | Valibrarian Gregg | and YOU are the center of the universe- N S E W those directions just center around you (that is the new mode) |
| 17:45 | Valibrarian Gregg | which is sad |
| 17:46 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | true... like we need that... :) |
| 17:46 | Valibrarian Gregg | to lose your "small" place in space |
| 17:46 | Valibrarian Gregg | and the big data companies know exactly where you are at all times due to GPS :) |
| 17:47 | Valibrarian Gregg | /me is presenting on the topic of privacy tomorrow in SL at the Nonprofit Commons |
| 17:47 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Ahh, so you have recited that mantra in preparation. ;) |
| 17:47 | Valibrarian Gregg | Sounds like we could come up with our own sci-fi mantras! |
| 17:47 | Valibrarian Gregg | hehe |
| 17:48 | Valibrarian Gregg | and the funny thing is they are not science fiction- but reality! the line gets blurry sometimes |
| 17:48 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | more and more very year, it seems |
| 17:49 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | *every |
| 17:50 | Valibrarian Gregg | Is the old adage still true? "The more things change, the more they stay the same"? |
| 17:50 | Ololo Petya (olopierpa) | hmmm |
| 17:50 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | There's a story about a computer scientist back in the 1980's who wasn't convinced about the computer chip market. Asked rather ironically if they were going to put chips in doorknobs. |
| 17:50 | Valibrarian Gregg | haha The IoT is coming! (Internet of Things) |
| 17:51 | Valibrarian Gregg | What did you think of the story's ending? |
| 17:51 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Not so many years later, the somewhat sarcastic remark was the reality. |
| 17:51 | Valibrarian Gregg | exactly! What we think is outrageous or impossible....may become reality. |
| 17:52 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | The ship itself was able to be not completely forthcoming with the humans. |
| 17:52 | Valibrarian Gregg | I suppose that may be the real theme of the story? |
| 17:52 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Well, I can show them scrap from X, they'll never know the difference. |
| 17:52 | KayCooper | So the little bot's irregularity is becoming contagious in a way |
| 17:52 | Valibrarian Gregg | That moment- the ship takes "real" command with decisions |
| 17:52 | Phrynne | the ability to think and reason independently |
| 17:53 | KayCooper | not following commands |
| 17:53 | Valibrarian Gregg | the Singularity! hah |
| 17:53 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Not following stupid commands |
| 17:53 | KayCooper | Could be the beginning of a whole thing |
| 17:53 | Valibrarian Gregg | making "better" choices than a human? |
| 17:54 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | The ship was able to recognize that #9 had created a plan that prevented the ship from being destroyed. |
| 17:54 | KayCooper | Kind of ungrateful of the humans to order #9 to be destroyed after it saved them |
| 17:56 | Valibrarian Gregg | /me just dropped 2 notecards about sessions I am doing tomorrow :) |
| 17:56 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Yes, while the ship reads the bot the riot act but preserves it. |
| 17:57 | Valibrarian Gregg | This was a really interesting and well-written story. |
| 17:57 | Valibrarian Gregg | and...next month- I like the idea of maybe doing a read around? |
| 17:57 | Phrynne | how does that work? |
| 17:58 | Valibrarian Gregg | Wordsmith- would that work for the Bradbury story you mentioned? |
| 17:58 | Valibrarian Gregg | In May- Wordsmith and I did a reading of a sci-fi story and it was really fun..... |
| 17:58 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | It's basically a conversation, so yes. |
| 17:59 | Valibrarian Gregg | So we just thought of trying it here for a change |
| 17:59 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Here being at the CVL campfire |
| 17:59 | Valibrarian Gregg | Would you think we just decide who wants to read then? |
| 17:59 | Valibrarian Gregg | around the campfire? |
| 17:59 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | That would work |
| 18:00 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Sort of passing the sock style |
| 18:00 | Valibrarian Gregg | Great! Can you send the link to the story? |
| 18:01 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Just a sec and I'll have it for you. |
| 18:01 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | And thank you all for coming and participating. |
| 18:01 | Valibrarian Gregg | Thank you all! this was great |
| 18:01 | KayCooper | Great story as always :) |
| 18:01 | Valibrarian Gregg | And next month will be on July 11 at 5pm |
| 18:02 | Ololo Petya (olopierpa) | where are these meetings announced? |
| 18:02 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | thank you for letting me listen in today. . Maybe see some of you in the morning for Valibrarian's presentation. |
| 18:03 | Valibrarian Gregg | Our group at CVL is called Second Life Library 2.0 |
| 18:03 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | have a pleasant evening everyone. |
| 18:03 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Hey Patty, this is all open meeting |
| 18:03 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | cool. I'll be back. :) |
| 18:03 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Glad you could come |
| 18:03 | Valibrarian Gregg | and our calendar is here https://communityvirtuallibrary.org/events/ |
| 18:03 | Patty Poppy (autopilotpatty.poppy) | great, thank you! |
| 18:04 | Valibrarian Gregg | Does that notecard for July 11th look okay? I put the story Wordsmith dropped to me inside it. |
| 18:05 | Phrynne | looks good |
| 18:05 | Ololo Petya (olopierpa) | Thank you |
| 18:05 | Valibrarian Gregg | I think a read around will be fun! |
| 18:05 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Well it says June |
| 18:05 | Valibrarian Gregg | oh TY let me fix |
| 18:06 | Valibrarian Gregg | better? I guess I was too quick!! |
| 18:06 | Valibrarian Gregg | and the notecard I gave you for tomorrow night is on an interesting topic! |
| 18:06 | Valibrarian Gregg | the perils of social media! |
| 18:07 | Valibrarian Gregg | 6pm tomorrow- different campfire....at the beach at CVL |
| 18:07 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Ideas are alive. |
| 18:08 | Valibrarian Gregg | In case you cannot come and are interested- here is the list of the 10 reasons Lanier wants us to stop using social media: |
| 18:08 | Valibrarian Gregg | Interesting to think about....not that people will or can stop! |
| 18:08 | KayCooper | I don't use a whole lot of social media myself |
| 18:08 | KayCooper | Bare minimum really |
| 18:09 | Valibrarian Gregg | met too...but some seems mandatory- for professional use |
| 18:09 | Valibrarian Gregg | *me too |
| 18:09 | KayCooper | True |
| 18:09 | Valibrarian Gregg | Well this has been really fun.... I need to say goodnight |
| 18:09 | Valibrarian Gregg | TY everyone |
| 18:09 | KayCooper | Thanks for everything |
| 18:09 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Use with thought and reason. |
| 18:09 | Ololo Petya (olopierpa) | Good night all |
| 18:09 | Valibrarian Gregg | great job as always Wordsmith |
| 18:09 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Thanks. |
| 18:10 | Valibrarian Gregg | bye for now :) |
| 18:10 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Til again. |
| 18:10 | KayCooper | Bye everyone |
| 18:10 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | bye Kay |
| 18:17 | Phrynne | toby manual |
| 18:28 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | Hi Andrea |
| 18:28 | Andrea Jones (andreajonesms) | hi passing through |
| 18:28 | Phrynne | hi Andrea |
| 18:28 | Andrea Jones (andreajonesms) | your meeting go well |
| 18:29 | Phrynne | I think so |
| 18:29 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | It did. I captured the transcript and have several to put up in the archive |
| 18:29 | Andrea Jones (andreajonesms) | nods |
| 18:30 | Andrea Jones (andreajonesms) | see you soon |
| 18:30 | Phrynne | yes |
| 18:31 | Wordsmith Jarvinen | :) Til then |