CVL-Caledon Literary Group Transcript for 2018-06-14

Cordwainer Smith — The Game of Rat and Dragon

16:48 VSTE Landing Point Welcome to VSTE, the Virginia Society for Technology in Education. We are a non-profit state-wide professional educational technology association dedicated to professional development for educators. Please enjoy your stay!
16:49 Valibrarian Gregg hello Can you hear me?
16:50 Valibrarian Gregg I did not realize the landmark was so far from the seating arrangement!
16:50 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) yes!
16:50 Valibrarian Gregg Can you hear me Wordsmith?
16:50 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) At first I couldn't because of the music...but I turned it down. :)
16:50 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) Hello Wordsmith
16:50 Valibrarian Gregg I am sending out last minute reminders
16:50 Wordsmith Jarvinen Hi Jade
16:51 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) Wordsmith, if you are a moderator, and need this couch, I can move over. :)
16:51 Valibrarian Gregg Welcome Cliff!
16:52 Cliff Eclipse Hey
16:52 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) Hello Cliff
16:52 Valibrarian Gregg We meet alternately at this spot and in Library Land! every other month
16:52 Cliff Eclipse Hi Jade
16:52 Cliff Eclipse Looks like a great place
16:52 Valibrarian Gregg Can you hear me- Cliff and Wordsmith?
16:52 Cliff Eclipse I can hear
16:53 Cliff Eclipse Cool
16:54 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) tysm for the notecard :)
16:55 Cliff Eclipse I can hear ya Words
16:55 Wordsmith Jarvinen ty cliff
16:55 Pepper Georgia (pepper.morlim) thank You Master
16:55 Cliff Eclipse I could pass on a notecard if you have an extra
16:56 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) Hello Pepper and Southern GA
16:57 Pepper Georgia (pepper.morlim) y
16:57 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) y
16:57 - ̗̀ SG ̖́- (southern.georgia) y
16:57 Valibrarian Gregg Can you hear me? type a y please
16:57 Wordsmith Jarvinen I am giving out a short notecard. If you're here and haven't gotten a notecard, lt me know.
17:00 Valibrarian Gregg I can't seem to hear! working on it!
17:01 Valibrarian Gregg relogging sorry
17:01 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) I liked the story.
17:02 Wordsmith Jarvinen Question was simply initial reactions? Anything that stuck out in reading it?
17:02 Wordsmith Jarvinen Anything in particularly enjoyable Jade?
17:03 Cliff Eclipse I do apologize for not having read it.
17:03 Wordsmith Jarvinen https://www.gutenberg.org/files/29614/29614-h/29614-h.htm
17:03 Free Radar HUD /me v1.1 by Crystal Gadgets
17:03 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) I think the ending....when he loved the cat..Lady May....more than humans...
17:03 Cliff Eclipse Thanks Words
17:04 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) My pets are members of the family, so I can relate. hahaha
17:04 Wordsmith Jarvinen Anyone not able to hear Val and myself?
17:04 Valibrarian Gregg I can hear now! and have my notecard open
17:05 Valibrarian Gregg hehe yes "can't get no respect" Dangerfield
17:06 Savage Taurus really similar to 18 yr olds in the army
17:07 Valibrarian Gregg Question- Did you see a similarity between the "pin-set" crown thing and a Virtual Reality Head-set?
17:08 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) Yes, but it was a weapon...wasn't it?
17:08 Valibrarian Gregg almost like a crown?
17:08 Savage Taurus it was an interface
17:09 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) ohh I thought it shot out the pin light and destroyed the dragons...or "rats"
17:09 Valibrarian Gregg When you say send "the mind out"- do you mean that the physical body was not traveling--- just the mind?
17:09 Wordsmith Jarvinen That's a good definition
17:09 Valibrarian Gregg as in virtual reality?
17:09 Valibrarian Gregg Interesting to think this was written over 60 years ago!
17:09 Wordsmith Jarvinen The physical body was traveling in the ship, but the mind was scanning the entire region around the ship.
17:09 Savage Taurus did it connect their minds to the ship's sensors, or did the humans sense the "dragons"?
17:10 Panny (panny.bakerly) Was it like a telepathy
17:10 Valibrarian Gregg oh wow- so there really is some "virtual reality" going on here- wouldn't you say?
17:10 Wordsmith Jarvinen The humans sensed the dragons.
17:10 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) Very interesting, but I have thought that my pets can read my mind as well.
17:10 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) lol
17:10 Savage Taurus so the pinset boosted their telepathic abilities?
17:10 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) Although, I guess they weren't pets...they were partners.
17:10 Panny (panny.bakerly) /me chuckles....'cats'
17:11 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) lol
17:11 Wordsmith Jarvinen Well, that brings up, for the"partners" what was the relationship based upon?
17:11 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) thoughts
17:11 Valibrarian Gregg They call the participants "pinlighters"
17:11 Panny (panny.bakerly) I thought that was an odd term 'pinlighter'
17:11 Panny (panny.bakerly) I thought of that horror movie...'pinhead'
17:12 Savage Taurus sounds like a typical teenager :P
17:12 Wordsmith Jarvinen Little, very intense pin-points of lights.
17:12 Valibrarian Gregg He says "it had nothing to do with intellect"
17:12 Valibrarian Gregg in the section called the Shuffle
17:13 Valibrarian Gregg emotion--- feeling-- temperament
17:13 Valibrarian Gregg were more important
17:13 Wordsmith Jarvinen Yes, but with "temperament and feel".
17:13 Valibrarian Gregg so maybe- personal relationship? as partners?
17:14 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) I read in a review..the pinlights were miniature nuclear bombs.
17:14 Valibrarian Gregg deep understanding?
17:14 Wordsmith Jarvinen And the story talks a lot about images from the "partners", liking, leering, fish.
17:15 Wordsmith Jarvinen Deep relationship of mutuality.
17:15 Valibrarian Gregg The partners thinks that human minds are "complex" and "fouled up".
17:16 Valibrarian Gregg maybe alluding to too much individuality and not enough mutual respect
17:16 Valibrarian Gregg less me me me and more us
17:16 Valibrarian Gregg humans could be short on that?
17:16 Wordsmith Jarvinen And the cats are certainly not uniform in their personalities.
17:17 Valibrarian Gregg teamwork? understanding strengths?
17:17 Wordsmith Jarvinen And basic to the story, what do the cats provide that humans are short on?
17:17 Savage Taurus reflex
17:17 Savage Taurus they are faster
17:18 Wordsmith Jarvinen and faster in reflex than the "rats".
17:18 Savage Taurus yes
17:19 Wordsmith Jarvinen So in order of reaction time: cats, rats, humans.
17:19 Savage Taurus using them for their strengths the same way humans use horses for transportation, chicken for eggs, dogs to herd sheep, sheep for wool
17:20 Savage Taurus dogs for their sense of smell
17:20 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) I like to look up bios of the authors I read. Mr. Smith (his pen name) was an expert in psychological warfare. And Cats do have faster reactions...they always land on their feet. :)
17:20 Wordsmith Jarvinen Yes
17:20 Panny (panny.bakerly) cats are very independent creatures.
17:20 Savage Taurus yea they can kill a snake
17:20 Savage Taurus head on
17:20 Wordsmith Jarvinen And yet they can be very social within that independence.
17:20 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) wow...so they are fearless, too.
17:21 Savage Taurus to them its a game
17:21 Wordsmith Jarvinen Although a game between predators
17:21 Panny (panny.bakerly) I always viewed cats as detached critters vs. dogs
17:21 Savage Taurus when the story revealed half way through who the "partners" were, I audibly cursed and slapped my forehead
17:22 Valibrarian Gregg and perhaps this points out how humans feel so superior
17:22 Panny (panny.bakerly) /me chuckles
17:22 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) lol
17:22 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) I had no idea, either.
17:22 Wordsmith Jarvinen There's the saying that dogs have masters while cats have staff.
17:22 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) lol
17:23 Valibrarian Gregg Well- the fact that Underhill fell in love with a cat (and will never find a woman as wonderful) reminded me of an old fairy tale called the White Cat (similar to Beauty and the Beast)- a transformation tale
17:23 Savage Taurus cats tend to mirror the personalities of their owners: cuddly cats come from loving owners, asshole cats are usually owned by assholes
17:23 Cliff Eclipse Hah
17:24 Savage Taurus the main reason rednecks hate cats...they abuse them
17:24 Wordsmith Jarvinen With some variation in natural personality.
17:24 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) whew...I've always had cuddly ones...sighs with relief.
17:24 Panny (panny.bakerly) Well, I'm not a cat person but I did not think they were really malleable animals. Always aloof and independent.
17:24 Cliff Eclipse Wordsmith, I have to ask, are you a fan of Neal Stephenson?
17:25 Valibrarian Gregg I liked the sentence that included "human eyes and cat eyes looked across and immensity which no words could meet , but affection spanned in a single glance".
17:25 Cliff Eclipse Love
17:25 Wordsmith Jarvinen I'm a bit like a cat when it comes to him. Complex. But the characterizations in Snowcrash were good.
17:25 Valibrarian Gregg I am reading Neal Stephenson's IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE COMMAND LINE right now! for our book discussion on Fri June 22
17:26 Cliff Eclipse Cool
17:26 Wordsmith Jarvinen And the command line did work.
17:27 Panny (panny.bakerly) I finished it Val.
17:27 Wordsmith Jarvinen Did Smith's imagery work? and why?
17:27 Panny (panny.bakerly) Yes, it did Wordsmith.
17:27 Valibrarian Gregg yes! I liked the book a lot (although it made me wish I was geekier and could use Linux OS, etc!)
17:28 Panny (panny.bakerly) nods
17:28 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) Now there is raspberry pi
17:28 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) :)
17:29 Valibrarian Gregg I use both MAC and PC just so I can understand both....but not past that
17:29 Wordsmith Jarvinen There are good Windows-Like interfaces, KDF, Gnome.
17:29 Valibrarian Gregg In this story--- I was interested in the "light speed" travel
17:29 Wordsmith Jarvinen Yes. There's an aspect in the technology that makes this entire story possible.
17:30 Valibrarian Gregg is that "planoforming"?
17:30 Panny (panny.bakerly) I didn't understand that.
17:30 Wordsmith Jarvinen That's what he calls it.
17:30 Panny (panny.bakerly) So how did it make some folks crazy?
17:30 Valibrarian Gregg reminded me of teleporting!
17:30 Valibrarian Gregg http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/content.asp?Bnum=1964
17:31 Wordsmith Jarvinen The aspect is that it's travel in discrete jumps.
17:31 Valibrarian Gregg hhmmm as in "from PLANE to PLANE" or something?
17:31 Wordsmith Jarvinen And you can't get there in one single jump.
17:32 Valibrarian Gregg If we ever did learn to travel at light speed-l wouldn't time travel be possible?
17:32 Wordsmith Jarvinen So some of the jumps end one up in the dark depths of space.
17:32 Valibrarian Gregg I think Stephen Hawking said that time travel would not even work at the speed of light because of black holes....something like that
17:32 Savage Taurus well shifting to another dimension is different than going light speed
17:33 Wordsmith Jarvinen In one sense, faster than light might be similar to near-light speed travel combined with backward time travel.
17:33 Valibrarian Gregg oh -- Savage- as in 3 dimensions and the dimension of time?
17:33 Savage Taurus well think of it as going though a door instead of running around the wall to the other side
17:34 Savage Taurus still walking, just shorter distance
17:34 Wordsmith Jarvinen But there's still the difference between continuous (think Star Trek with the stars going by) and the discrete jumps (which aren't unique to Smith)
17:34 Valibrarian Gregg like portals?
17:34 Savage Taurus yea warp speed is different
17:34 Savage Taurus yea
17:35 Wordsmith Jarvinen Like portals in many ways
17:36 Savage Taurus like if you had a bug on a piece of paper - 2 dimensions - then you folded the paper so that the bug could walk from one end to the other quicker...folding space into higher dimensions
17:36 Valibrarian Gregg I think I have heard of a "space fold" somewhere. mind boggling
17:37 Wordsmith Jarvinen You don't get disassembled and reassembled. You''re here and then you're there, but there's limits to the distance.
17:38 Wordsmith Jarvinen As if the ship makes its own doorway.
17:38 Valibrarian Gregg Here's an example of his imagery: As the pin-set warmed, the room fell away. The other people ceased to be people and became small glowing heaps of fire, embers, dark red fire, with the consciousness of life burning like old red coals in a country fireplace.
17:38 Savage Taurus yes great imagery
17:39 Wordsmith Jarvinen It's direct see/feel wording. One reason the story still works all these years later.
17:39 Valibrarian Gregg agreed :)
17:40 Valibrarian Gregg To think that this was before the "space age"- rockets etc
17:40 Wordsmith Jarvinen Now one thing that has changed is, I can't imagine anyone wanting two-months of hospital recuperations.
17:40 Savage Taurus Imagine a circular road, like a roundabout. You could walk around the road to get to the other side, or you could cut across the grass in the center. The road is a line, 1 dimensional. When you go off the road, you are going off in a different dimension to make the path shorter.
17:41 Valibrarian Gregg INteresting concept!
17:42 Valibrarian Gregg and true, Wordsmith- we expect to be out of the hospital right away now!
17:42 Wordsmith Jarvinen And, if one wants to recuperate and rest, there are more attractive options.
17:43 Savage Taurus hospitals are not fun places
17:44 Wordsmith Jarvinen So, it's not the issue of needing recuperation time, but of having it in a not fun place.
17:45 Wordsmith Jarvinen But maybe that was a different perspective in the mid 50's.
17:45 Valibrarian Gregg Hospitals have become consumer oriented - not at all that way then
17:45 Wordsmith Jarvinen Anyone have a chance to listen to "The Light"?
17:46 Valibrarian Gregg Sorry I did not get to that one!
17:46 Savage Taurus they still suck :P
17:46 Cliff Eclipse Hadn't
17:46 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) No, I didn't listen to "The Light", yet.
17:47 Savage Taurus i didn't know that was part of this
17:47 Valibrarian Gregg Maybe we should keep it til next month> OR did you have another suggestion?
17:47 Savage Taurus yes lets read that for next month
17:47 Valibrarian Gregg I do think SCI fi is perfect for virtual world discussions...don't you?
17:47 Cliff Eclipse oh yeah!
17:47 Savage Taurus yes
17:47 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) Yes :)
17:47 Savage Taurus I love sci fi
17:48 Wordsmith Jarvinen It's interesting in the sense of being able to create the situation, but then doing something within it.
17:48 Valibrarian Gregg Maybe focus on the audio story -The Light by Poul Anderson...but also have a written one? or is just one enough?
17:48 Valibrarian Gregg We will meet at the CVL Literature Campfire next time- date will be July 12
17:49 Cliff Eclipse :)
17:49 Wordsmith Jarvinen If you like Val, I could get back to you on a few story suggestions. Phyrnne has sent me a bunch, that I haven't had time to look at during the SL15B build.
17:49 Savage Taurus I could easily read a short story every week, but a book a month is a bit much for me
17:50 Valibrarian Gregg sure!!! Where is your SL15B build? Do you have a landmark?
17:50 Wordsmith Jarvinen These are short stories.
17:50 Valibrarian Gregg CVL participated too and I will drop you all a notecard!
17:50 Wordsmith Jarvinen Admits to it note being quite finished yet.
17:50 Savage Taurus I am going to try to read the Stephenson one for next week. it doesn't seem too long
17:51 Wordsmith Jarvinen http://maps.secondlife.com/secondlife/SL15B%20Stupendous/68/21/26
17:51 Valibrarian Gregg There are a couple of quick tours on that notecard
17:51 Valibrarian Gregg Oh looks like you are close to CVL! Will visit for sure
17:52 Valibrarian Gregg I think the parcels open on Sunday-- right?
17:52 Valibrarian Gregg June 17th
17:52 Wordsmith Jarvinen The build itself is a 4 building creation that is the solution to the Habersasher's puzzle.
17:52 Wordsmith Jarvinen Yes, the 17th
17:52 Wordsmith Jarvinen Inspection started at noon today.
17:52 Savage Taurus oh thats sounds very interesting
17:53 Valibrarian Gregg Well- we can all mark our calendars for July 12th as the next short story discussion....and you can let me know the story :)
17:53 Valibrarian Gregg I will drop you all the info once we know!
17:53 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) tyvm :)
17:53 Valibrarian Gregg Sounds like a cool build! Wordsmith
17:53 Wordsmith Jarvinen The puzzle was how to divide and equilateral triangle into 4 pieces that can also form a square of the same area.
17:54 Cliff Eclipse Wow, I gotta see it.
17:54 Valibrarian Gregg Ours is a futuristic library and shares info about our Digital Citizenship Museum being build in Kitely. There is plenty of room to contribute- Digital Citizenship is a super broad concept!
17:54 Wordsmith Jarvinen And a RL company built a house based on this that can reconfigure to use sunlight to best advantage.
17:54 Valibrarian Gregg I think it even relates to this story! Digital Citizens in space ;)
17:54 Wordsmith Jarvinen Called D'Haus. So a simulation of that.
17:55 Savage Taurus https://academo.org/demos/haberdashers-puzzle/
17:55 Valibrarian Gregg awesome Wordsmith! thanks
17:55 Valibrarian Gregg virtual world puzzle!
17:55 Wordsmith Jarvinen But within that, I'm write stuff on crystals and have created crystal like textures.
17:55 Wordsmith Jarvinen *writing stuff
17:55 Valibrarian Gregg MAYBE when we do our tours over to our build....we can take people to see yours?
17:56 Wordsmith Jarvinen Sure.
17:56 Cliff Eclipse You must forgive me, gotta run in RL.
17:56 Valibrarian Gregg good to see you CLiff
17:56 Cliff Eclipse A pleasure being here
17:56 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) tc Cliff, and nice to see you
17:56 Cliff Eclipse Thanks to you all
17:56 Wordsmith Jarvinen If I reconfigure, that will be in slack times and done "manually"
17:56 Cliff Eclipse Smiles
17:56 Wordsmith Jarvinen Thanks for coming Cliff.
17:56 Valibrarian Gregg So can you get the story for next month to me by the end of next week- is that enough time?
17:56 Wordsmith Jarvinen Should be, yes.
17:57 Valibrarian Gregg ok- I will be in touch and will check out your SLB15 nuild :)
17:57 Wordsmith Jarvinen And keep "The Light".
17:57 Valibrarian Gregg Great discussion tonight- super interesting story!
17:57 Wordsmith Jarvinen Glad you (plural) like it.
17:57 Savage Taurus it went by very quickly
17:57 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) Yes, I enjoyed it and thank you for the discussion notes. :)
17:58 Valibrarian Gregg The notes really help move the conversation. l ty
17:58 ღلadё ℝeynolds ღ (jadetyler) tc everyone :)
17:58 Valibrarian Gregg I look forward to listening to the Light!
17:58 Wordsmith Jarvinen tc
17:58 Valibrarian Gregg Have a good night all (or whatever time it is!)
17:58 Wordsmith Jarvinen Thanks for hosting, Val.
17:58 Valibrarian Gregg :)
17:58 Savage Taurus thanks for hosting this
17:59 Valibrarian Gregg Looking forward to the SLB15 hunt too!
17:59 Savage Taurus Have a pleasant 24 hour period, folks ;)
17:59 Panny (panny.bakerly) This was most enjoyable.
17:59 Valibrarian Gregg bye for now
17:59 Wordsmith Jarvinen Oh, one concept I picked up from Snowcrash. -- Getting to the next frame.
17:59 Savage Taurus I really need to read that
18:00 Wordsmith Jarvinen Which means surviving the current "frame"
18:00 Valibrarian Gregg I would reread SNowcrash!
18:00 Valibrarian Gregg He came up with quite a few terms we use!
18:00 Savage Taurus smiles
18:00 Valibrarian Gregg including the Metaverse
18:00 Valibrarian Gregg See you again
18:00 Savage Taurus no power in the verse can stop me :)
18:00 Valibrarian Gregg gotta run
18:00 Savage Taurus bye :)
18:00 Wordsmith Jarvinen Til then
18:01 Savage Taurus take care